I am a commuter and don't ride many other types of miles. I've had Joe Rocket, Firstgear, and Fieldsheer pants in the past. These are the best fitting, best protective pants by far of any of the other mesh pants I have had. Add in the price, and it's way way more product for the money. I'm not sure if they're supposed to be overpants, but I use them that way. I wear a size 36 jean, and the extra-large Solare fits great over all my pants. The CE armor in the knees felt thin, but took them out to check and saw that they were quite thick. I definitely recommend these pants.